+     nevries
From: (Nico E de Vries)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt

Subject: Re: IBM-PC random generator, source included
Message-ID: <>
Date: 25 Jun 92 09:54:47 GMT
References: <> <>
+           <> <1992Jun25.071702.
+ >
Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht
Lines: 57

Terry Ritter writes:

> In <>
> (Ross Anderson) writes:

>>The current flame war:

> Perhaps a frank exchange of views may seem like a "flame war"
> to some readers in more sanguine societies like the UK.
> I certainly do not consider such an exchange a "flame war."

Agreed very much!

> I hope I have not insulted anyone, nor the work of anyone,
> by pointing out that there exists no theoretical basis nor
> any known precedent for generating nondeterministic sequences
> on a deterministic machine.  This would not be a new design,

Correct. But the "machine" being deterministic (meaning the uP
and its flow of conrol etc) does not mean all hardware in
a specific computer is deterministic as well. 

Computers HAVE to be deterministic. It is one of their major
strengths. From the view of a 100% software algo everything
(should be) is deterministic.

> it would be a major breakthrough.  Finding a useful
> nondeterministic aspect hidden in a normal computer would be
> a significant and important advance.

Well I think it is less spectacular than that. I wouldn't
call using the non-deterministic phase shift of crystal
olscilators a major breaktrough. 

If some pascal program (no HW allowed) would act non-deterministic
THAN there would be a breakthrough. But it can be proven this
is impossible. (especialy Dijkstra will elaborate this :-)

> It is important to be able to propose new ideas, and have them
> considered seriously from various points of view.  And it is
> especially important to be able to make mistakes without this
> becoming a social issue.

Yes indeed. I realy love usenet for this possibility!

> Terry Ritter

Nico E. de Vries
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